Episode transcription

(Be aware this transcription was done by AI and might contain some mistakes)

Fabrice Neuman (00:11)
Hi everyone and welcome to the Human Pulse podcast where we talk about living well with technology. I'm Fabrice Neuman a tech consultant for small businesses.

Anne Trager (00:19)
And I’m Anne Trager, a human potential and executive performance coach.

Fabrice Neuman (00:24)
This is episode 21, recorded on July 27th, 2025.

Anne Trager (00:28)
Human Pulse is usually never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started. We are honored today to introduce a man who has recently changed my life. I am a coach and coaches use all kinds of assessments. I understand their use, I've used them, I use other ones occasionally, but honestly, assessments truly bore me. I really get why they're important, but they bore me as a coach.

Can you imagine? So that is until I discovered meet yourself, which is a personality assessment based on everything I love genetics, neuroscience, behavioral psychology, and it provides a truly unique, empowering look at your innate motivations and potentials. I am so enthusiastic about it. I'm excited like like a kid in a chocolate shop or me as an adult who I am right now in a dark chocolate shop. This tool was developed by Dr. Antoine Eid who joins us today. founded Meet Yourself and he also founded the Human Index and he's author of the world's first dictionary of personality traits.

He is CEO of Leadership Consulting Group and head of the Brain-Based Leadership Program in Cambridge. Well, anything, anyway, you see, he has done a lot and he has mostly come up with this extraordinary tool. He has set out to create a world where everyone is living in their full potential and I believe he is truly contributing to that on a daily basis. So welcome, Antoine.

Dr Antoine Eid (02:12)
Thank you so much for the introduction. It humbles me to see your enthusiasm. You and Fabrice are doing amazing things. And thank you for bringing this from the angle of technology as well.

Fabrice Neuman (02:25)
Yeah, thank you, Antoine, for joining us today. I was lucky enough to do the Meet Yourself certification level one. because basically you forced me because you said Antoine that it would be great to do that as a couple. And it was. And I can vouch for how transformative it was. But as Anne said, we're not here to talk only about Meet Yourself, but we wanted to have your view about technology because this is what we do here. We talk about technology and living well with it. both, Ann and I, bask in technology, I'm a tech reviewer and stuff like that. so we like to have our guests' views on how well they live with technology. actually, do you live well with technology? Do you have a... I would you say a healthy relationship with technology?

Dr Antoine Eid (03:21)
That's a very nice question. The short answer is no. And part of it is deliberate. And the other part is me not being able to cope with so many apps and tools at the same time. Basically, you know, I know and are very familiar with the concept. Intuitive brains are more in touch with nature, with people and we do use technology, but it's not usually our biggest preference because we are less concrete, less pragmatic and more within our own imagination and thoughts. So my relationship with technology has been on and off and I get, I tend to get hooked to a tool or an app for a while until I find something better, but I've never been able to juggle or manage so many at the same time.

Anne Trager (04:19)
I love that and I love what you're saying about intuitive minds because I'm, as you brought up, an intuitive mind as well. I have one of those and I love the big picture and I love technology. But like you said, not in a really concrete way. I would never build an app. I would never code anything and I would never, like you, stick with an app for a very long time. I I'm just like, I just move on. Well, Fabrice, so I'm curious because you're a little bit more involved in the weeds of technology than I am, and yet you have an intuitive mind as well.

Fabrice Neuman (04:57)
Well, I guess also I found comfort in using technology. so when I started, I would spend hours in just arranging my files on my PC that was not connected to the internet yet because it was like in 1984 and so things like that. I guess it was a... I always had, for example, a computer well organized.

Meaning it's the opposite of my desk. So I guess for whatever reason, it works better for me on a computer than on, you know, with the real objects and papers and pens and stuff like that. So I don't know why exactly. But the I'm still I'm curious, Antoine, because you're saying that you're not sticking with an app for so long. But I would expect you to have a few landmarks that like things that you've been using for so long that maybe you forgot all about. We all have that. you use, maybe it's Word, maybe and it's an online tool that you still use today. Maybe it's a game, for example. Do you actually play on your computer?

Anne Trager (06:15)
Great.

Dr Antoine Eid (06:17)
Well, yes, I used to be a gamer and it reminds me of very nice long sleepless nights playing Portal. Have you played portals before?

Fabrice Neuman (06:31)
No, I'm not familiar with this one. What is it?

Dr Antoine Eid (06:34)
Yeah, it's an addictive game and you play it online with other people. So that was many years ago and it was, I got hooked to it with one of my actually colleagues at work, one of my staff members. We finished work late at night and we started playing. But yes, you're absolutely right. We cannot escape using technology in this world. ⁓

And it's funny, it was only a few days ago that I was looking at the finances in my company and I realized how much we are paying for all these subscriptions. And they all seem very small, $7, $8, but you would only realize how much we're paying when you add them up together. It's thousands of dollars every month between your calendar apps and your email server thing everything else. The ones that I use most are just the regular ones, but I would like to show you something that I just found next to me. This is my to-do list.

Anne Trager (07:43)
you use that kind of technology like the fashion technology.

Dr Antoine Eid (07:45)
The technology

Fabrice Neuman (07:47)
And for this, don't have the image, it's pen and paper.

Dr Antoine Eid (07:50)
Pen is a technology. Anything that's been developed in a lab or in a research center and turned into a sellable product is called a technology. So this is one. And I still use that to go through my to-do list.

Anne Trager (08:08)
I love it. I love it. I'm always working with my clients on being more productive and finding systems and stuff like that to do whatever it is they have to do. And what I've always found for myself is that I have to change. And I'm always going back, look, I've got one of those too, piece of paper with a bunch of scribbles on it, which nobody can read, including myself, but the scribbles help, you know, because, know, and then I go back and I say, what was it that I was that I noted down. anyway, yeah, I use pen and paper as well.

Fabrice Neuman (08:42)
I totally agree with the fact that technology, you know, when we talk about technology nowadays, the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, computer chips and screens and what have you. so, but we forget that before all those tools we use on a regular basis, they had to be invented. And so they were new and the new technology, just as the wheel was. But seeing you guys with your pens and papers that I wouldn't say that it makes me cringe because it would be too harsh of a word. because for me, so I guess I'm going to go there. Paper is not a good technology, as far as I'm concerned. For example, for reading, I cannot, for the life of me, I'm exaggerating just a tiny bit, but read on paper. And I like to read on screens or on E-ink screens.

When I do sometimes use a pen, it's more like a stylus on a kind of a tablet, because basically what I miss is the fact that pen and paper are not connected to anything and they don't synchronize to anything. So you can lose them. Maybe it's a positive characteristic for you. And you'll tell us, Antoine. But what I mean to say is that if I write something somewhere, want to... to make sure that I can go back to it, whichever device I use. Do you miss that in paper or why do you choose paper still?

Dr Antoine Eid (10:16)
I could actually give what I think is the explanation for why you have this preference and why do I have a different preference.

Fabrice Neuman (10:26)
Please

Dr Antoine Eid (10:28)
We've both done our brain print and I remember very well that yours was quite pragmatic, lower brain thinking, concrete thinking, so accomplisher and socializer thinking. Am I correct?

Anne Trager (10:42)
I think Fabrice was visionary and socializer.

Fabrice Neuman (10:45)
That's such an accomplisher.

Dr Antoine Eid (10:48)
That's not what I remember. Are you sure? I might be mistaken. You must know better than me because I this conversation.

Anne Trager (10:56)
Yeah.

We compared it. We compared it. So Fabrice is a visioner, but I think he's got some higher level genetic motivators that are in the Accomplisher.

Dr Antoine Eid (11:09)
Maybe we can if you can retrieve your brain print just to verify because I recall it was pragmatic what

Anne Trager (11:17)
Yeah, do share it with us, Fabrice. It'll be...

Dr Antoine Eid (11:19)
Even if it's not, you must have an accomplisher, an accomplisher preference within that intuitive thinking, which makes our brain different, your brain different than mine and Anne, who have an intuitive preference without a pragmatic or an accomplisher thinking motivator. Did you find it?

Fabrice Neuman (11:43)
No, not yet. I have to...

Dr Antoine Eid (11:47)
I guess how.

So then while you're doing that, let me explain from my standpoint. It's basically due to my high intuitive preference. My issue is with control. I need to be thinking freely and inspired in the moment. This is how my thinking is driven. And I've always felt that technology takes that freedom away from me. My team has been struggling for a long time getting me to

add my tasks or mark my tasks as completed in our project management thing. I could never do it. I could never accept that my computer is telling me when is the deadline for me to finish something. I want to finish it whenever I feel like finishing it. And it goes back to what drives me. It's more the feeling, the sensation, the being in the moment rather than the efficiency, which is what drives a pragmatic thinker.

And because technology helps a lot with efficiency, pragmatic thinkers adopt technology and they actually have a higher reliance on technology that is reliable, but not necessarily the best. The printer is a good printer for an accomplished thinker if it produces good paper and doesn't break, but doesn't have to have the highest resolution.

Anne Trager (13:11)
So interesting.

Fabrice Neuman (13:14)
Do you mean to say that you don't trust technology that much?

Dr Antoine Eid (13:18)
I do, I just cannot be tamed, I cannot be controlled because just to give you an idea of my day, I don't have a calendar. I spend my day talking to people and I'm very happy doing meetings all day long. But when it comes to doing small tasks, I keep postponing these endlessly until that's it, it's now causing damage. That's the time when I under that type of pressure.

that I start working on small details. when I gave a few attempts at a project management or a calendar, I saw that these tasks were getting postponed and postponed endlessly. And there was no point in having them in the project management thing anymore. Because I was the only one in my company that wasn't actually doing my tasks because

intuitive thinkers procrastinate and I came to peace with the fact that I'm going to eventually do it when I feel like it.

Fabrice Neuman (14:22)
Yeah

Anne Trager (14:24)
I love your description because I completely recognize myself in that. And as a very intuitive thinker with a high visioner and socializer, I actually ground myself with accomplisher things. That is, I will use the tools in such a way to get stuff done because...

because otherwise I just never get it done. And so I've developed that skill. It's a learned competency in order to just sort of ground me and get stuff done so that I can survive in this world. Febreze, did you find your brain?

Fabrice Neuman (15:05)
Yeah, yeah.

So I'll try maybe to give another take on that. So I'm a 32 % socializer, 31 visioner and 21 reasoner. So not an accomplisher that much. But I also tend to be logical and but I'm very into team. I'm a team player and, you know, in the sharing process. And I also think that

what I found in technology is the possibility, the ease of sharing things. Because if you have this, this would be my take. The fact that, and sharing with others or with myself, like between devices, and that's my point of being able to have access to everything I own or have or read or whatever, wherever I am and whenever I want to.

If I put something, plus I would say I'm known to be, and will confirm that, somewhat forgetful with objects. And so if I had my notes on a notebook, paper notebook, then I would forget to take it with me.

Anne Trager (16:24)
Right. So what I'm hearing is this really interesting contrast of Antoine, for you, technology can limit your freedom. And for Fabrice, it opens up his freedom. it's the same technology, which is an astonishing thing. And I think it brings us down to this very beautiful thing that really comes out and meet yourself. And that is how individual and unique

we all are in who we are in how and what our motivators are and and then how we're going to express that in the world. That was my great moment of thought.

Fabrice Neuman (17:04)
As an example, it reminds me of this story about the GPS. We all, I suppose you do too, Antoine, to use GPS to go from one place to the next? No.

Dr Antoine Eid (17:18)
But I'll tell you some stories about that.

Anne Trager (17:20)
Yeah, I can't wait.

Fabrice Neuman (17:22)
Yes, please. so I remember this conversation with a friend a few years ago who would refuse to use GPS on a regular basis because it would impede his freedom to go places because he said, well, so it tells me where to go so I can never get lost again. And for him, it was really a blockage to that. And for me is that, well, because I have GPS.

I can go wherever I please and if I get lost, I know I can go back. And so it really eases my mind, know, reassures me thanks to technology. And so it was totally opposite and he couldn't comprehend my point of view and I couldn't comprehend his. So what's your what's your position on that? I'm pun intended.

Dr Antoine Eid (18:14)
My position is very different than yours but I can totally comprehend your position and why not getting lost is important. For me getting lost is usually the most fun part of a journey. The other day I was running a session and I asked people to write down the last time they were truly happy.

And I was able to recall the last three times that I was truly happy. And I was surprised. They were all almost the same story, but only in different places. The thing that makes me happiest is reaching a new city, hiring a car, and finding my way to the hotel without a GPS. And getting lost and stopping and talking to people and asking them how to get there. The other day I was walking across the park in Cambridge and I did the park.

Anne Trager (19:01)
Ha.

Dr Antoine Eid (19:13)
diagonally. It was the first time I go there, just outside Cambridge. And when I reached there, I was wondering if another route would take me back to the parking. So I asked, there was a couple of two old, an old couple walking together. And I asked them, excuse me, does this take me back to the car park? And they were very nice.

people and they started explaining to me. said, the man said, yes, you go straight. And then as soon as he said, you go right, I started losing interest. did not want him to tell me the rest of it. I just wanted him to tell me, yes, you can get there and leave me to figure it out. I just something inside my head just was blocking all his words. I did not want to hear it. that's exactly what I said. It's amazing how we are made differently and how we think, prefer thinking differently. Some of us prefer safety to experimentation, some experimentation or fun or curiosity. Some prefer being prepared ahead of time, knowing exactly how I know people who would arrive and know how to get there because all of the preparations they've done before. what really is interesting in this is that we're just us and we're beautiful just the way we are. We're just different. Yeah. And that's what makes this world and all of us so nice is that variety of these different minds being together.

Anne Trager (20:49)
Yeah, beautiful. Okay. So it's pretty clear for me that your main focus is on like these beautiful people, but also on like personality development and how, and who we are, who we become, who we are, what contributes to that. And so in your experience, how do you think technology, you know, helps or hinders our capacity for being the humans we are? Okay. It's kind of a broad question, but.

Dr Antoine Eid (21:16)
Yeah, it's a nice one. technology is part of who we are today, if we want that or not. I can't think of an example where anyone is living absolutely without technology or at least the technology we know. I've just came back from my road trip. As you know, I was going across Asia, parts of Asia, and I got the chance to meet some amazing people who think that they are using the latest technology and that for them was the best thing they have put their hands on. And what matters really is whether a person is able to control or to use technology for their happiness and not the other way around, not become a prisoner of technology. Especially what I've been observing a lot, having conversations with people in remote areas.

What strikes me is the depth of their thinking. Even though they don't have the same technology, they're not on Instagram all day long, but they have depth of thinking. what this makes me realize is that today what is happening is due to this technology being so available and so ready, that we have given up depth of information to speed of information. Today's people know so much about almost nothing.

Fabrice Neuman (22:43)
Boom.

Dr Antoine Eid (22:44)
When you talk about someone who's not in touch with so much technology, they know less, but a lot about that. So we have been for a couple of generations at least giving up depth for speed. And unfortunately with AI, I'm now worried that we're going to be giving up speed for no thinking at all.

Anne Trager (23:06)
Yeah. This is such a key point and it comes down to something that we talk about frequently in this podcast, which is becoming intentional about what we're doing, being aware of how we're using the technology and are we using it to replace our thinking or are we using it to deepen our thinking?

Fabrice Neuman (23:30)
And fill up empty spaces. I would say that quote unquote, because I think we tend to consider too often that those spaces are empty, but they are not because they are full of our thoughts, for example. So I guess it goes back to what you were saying, Antoine, which is when we don't have anything to do, it's OK not to do anything because we always do think you know we don't have to listen to music or podcast or read or doom scroll all the time because

Anne Trager (24:08)
Or meditate or try not to think or anything we can just be.

Fabrice Neuman (24:12)
We can just be, and I guess we forget to be. in that area, did you think that what does, what's the role of AI in that? Is it helping or is it not in that area?

Dr Antoine Eid (24:28)
Well, because of my involvement with the H.I. in the H.I. index, I have been researching and reading and thinking a lot about this.

Anne Trager (24:42)
Excuse me, can you say a few words about the H.I. index so that the readers can catch on to that?

Dr Antoine Eid (24:47)
Yes, of course.

So basically, it was all inspired by the recent World Economic Forum statistics that I've seen end of last year. And we don't realize how much we are giving up on our analytical ability because we have access to a machine thinking for us. And it is said that in the next few years, this analytical ability will almost become obsolete. People are going to start the our brains will be rewired to go to a computer screen to solve our simplest problems. And that is a skill, just like any other skill, like a muscle, if you don't train it after a while, you don't use it anymore. So I'm accepting from one side that AI is just another tool that humans have created. And every time human beings create a tool, they end up gaining new skills, transforming and giving up on some of their existing skills. At some point in history, humans or men left the cave to go hunting, they used to run in groups after the prey to catch it with their bare hands. And one day, they invented the bow and arrow. And now they've gained distance, but they gave up on their physical strength and on their speed. And it's normal. At one point in time, somebody was looking at the spoon and saying, why, what is this thing? Is this is going to change the whole way we eat with the chopsticks or whatever, or with our hands? And that was the technology back then. It was the equivalent of AI today. And every time we adopt a tool that man have created, the humans have created, we are transforming into something we don't know what's going to be, but we know what we're giving up on. And right now we are giving up on our analytical skills, slowly but surely, to an extent where the part that scares me is, what's going to happen when the next generations are not able to solve their own problems? Who's going to solve it for them? At what cost? I don't want to go and get into the conspiracy theory thing.

But it scares me if there's 1 % chance there's a plan behind this, that these tools are being used not only for our convenience, but also to one day be controlling our lives and our thinking. And that's the part that scares me, really. And this is why I'm a big advocate of human intelligence, not that I'm against AI.

There are big people in the world trying to regulate this, possibly. But I would like to remind people that at some point, the only thing that we can offer as human beings in this world is our human traits. Because everything else is going to be replaced. And if we don't nurture these traits today, we're not going to have anything to offer.

Fabrice Neuman (28:07)
So I'd like to reassure people that for real, you are not against technology at all and not against AI at all. And for example, you have created an AI chatbot that is quote unquote you. know, when part of the Meet Yourself program, you can access the Dr. Antoine E. chatbot. So you can ask it questions and to help ⁓

go deeper into the analysis of your brain print as we said and your assessment, the Meet Yourself assessment. yet I would ask you, how do you reconciliate this with what you just said about you being afraid of it? ⁓

Dr Antoine Eid (28:54)
Just quickly, I know that Anne wants to say something, but just making sure that we're using technology in the service of humanity and not as means to control humanity. That's the only point that and we people said that before the social media boom, people said that before cars, etc. But these voices eventually the human brains are going to be seeking convenience.

This is one of the brain's biggest goals is to seek convenience. And no matter how much we resist it, most human brains on this planet are going to eventually favor convenience. But I'll be becoming the lazy, overweight, not fit, mentally lazy people that would eventually, is how extinction happens.

Are we going to become extinct as a species because we're not fit enough anymore to survive?

Anne Trager (29:59)
Yeah, you know, this circles back to long lasting philosophical questions, you know, that to actually, know, the Stoics are all about, you know, how you refine yourself by getting better and, you know, pushing yourself to do hard things. I'm obviously simplifying the philosophical thought, but doing hard things in order to push yourself to be better because otherwise, yes, our natural tendency is to be lazy. You know, we will actually

Let's put it in a different words. It's to expend the least amount of energy possible, which is by definition being lazy. And we're designed that way because we are extraordinary beings with extraordinary capacities that no AI yet has been able to replicate. That's where I join you, Antoine, in your

in the work that you're doing and I am so admirative of it and I am so happy to be working with Meet Yourself because it allows us to really focus in on who we are as individuals and you really highlight those traits that make us not only human but also individual humans with different potentials and different capacities in a way that...

is both random. I mean, it's also just like completely random that we all have these experiences. I mean, we're born with the genes and then we have all these experiences that will create other stuff. And then we develop, we have an ability to learn and develop behaviors throughout our life. So we have this breadth of possibility in us that is incredible. And yes, by all means, ⁓

let's not like just give it over to AI, which is so one dimensional. So I guess that's what I want to say after after this conversation and bring it to I believe we've probably reached our 30 minute point. It goes so fast. How would you like to close out this conversation? Me? Yes, you.

Fabrice Neuman (32:07)
It goes so fast.

Dr Antoine Eid (32:13)
Yeah.

Well, it's always nice talking to you with your different minds and your different personalities, both brilliant. I like that we're looking at this from different angles, a trust in technology, less reliance and trust in technology, but both from good intentions. Intention of how can we use technology in the service of us becoming better.

better people. And if you're not in, if you don't have the intention of making people better, you wouldn't have this podcast and you wouldn't be doing everything that you both of you do. So I'm really honored to know you and to talk to you. And I know that we have our little corner in the world and our little voice and we can say so much and we might not be able to make a very big difference, but just a wake up call.

for anyone who has a child who's leaving their child on their phones 24-7 in front of the computer 24-7 is how can we manage that to make sure that we use technology for our benefit but at the same time not become prisoners of it.

Fabrice Neuman (33:32)
And this people is how wonderful it can be to have a conversation with Dr. Antoine Eade. Thank you again, Dr. Antoine Eade for being so generous with your time. That's it for episode 21. Thank you all for joining us. Visit humanpulsepodcast.com for links and past episodes.

Anne Trager (33:55)
And please do reach out and find out more about Meet Yourself at meetyourself.me. And thank you again for being so generous with your time and thoughts.

Fabrice Neuman (34:06)
Thank you all and please share with this podcast with one person around you and see you in two weeks.

Anne Trager (34:12)
Bye everyone.