Episode transcription

(Be aware this transcription was done by AI and might contain some mistakes)

Fabrice Neuman
Hi everyone and welcome to the Human Pulse Podcast where we talk about living well with technology. I'm Fabrice Neuman

Anne Trager
And I'm Anne Trager

Fabrice Neuman
We are recording this on January 26th, 2025.

Anne Trager
Human Pulse is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.

Fabrice Neuman
All right, Anne, so as we mentioned in the last episode, and not really surprisingly, we have lots more to talk about coffee, right?

So let's start with a quick recap. Last episode, we started to talk about coffee drinking temperature. Mine is still 59 degrees Celsius, which is 138 degrees Fahrenheit. I had the time to check this time. this is thanks to my new mug keeps my coffee warm at the preferred temperature, which I haven't changed since last time. We also discussed coffee making temperature I settled on 90 degrees Celsius, which is 194 degrees Fahrenheit as displayed on the tiny screen on our electric kettle. But it seems that you haven't settled for the same temperature, you?

Anne Trager
No, I bump it up to 95 degrees Celsius because I then will measure out my water in my cup before I pour it into the French press. And that reduces the temperature a little bit so that it then, and then it sits in the French press for a little while. So I want to get it to a good drinking temperature when it's time for me to.

Fabrice Neuman
Every detail matters. And speaking of detail, there are still a few areas that we haven't touched. And the first of them is how we grind our coffee. Obviously we wouldn't buy ground coffee, right? So what do we do?

Anne Trager
We buy whole beans, And we don't buy ground.

Fabrice Neuman
Yeah, absolutely. Plus, I would say it's difficult to find the right grind size. Maybe it's different in the US, but here in France, when you buy ground coffee, always too fine for our preferred methods of making coffee, right? Because we don't use espresso machines. And so what we want is something a little coarser, so a little bigger. And so we can't really find that. But of course, it's not enough to say that we use a grinder. We also searched for type of grinder. So yeah, absolutely. I guess maybe some of our listeners will think that we oversimplify. I'm not sure about that. So basically, there are two types of grinders.

Anne Trager
Absolutely. Again, the details are very important.

Hahaha.

Fabrice Neuman
The blade grinding ones and the burr, B-U-R-R grinding ones. And basically, as far as we're concerned, we wouldn't use anything else than a burr grinder—when you use a blade, of rotating blades, it has to go very fast and sometimes you can... burn the coffee beans before breaking it into small pieces, which is not what you want to do because you would add some burning flavor to it. yeah, exactly. So we prefer the burr grinding thing, which uses two abrasive surfaces to crush beans to a uniform size, which is what we want as well.

Anne Trager
Yeah, it's the heat. It heats it up too much.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what we're realizing from this conversation, or what I am realizing from this conversation is that it really is in the details. So we have the size of the grinds, we have the time that it brews, you have the temperature at which you brew it, the temperature at which you drink it, and all of this in order to really enjoy the flavor completely and fully. So it brings us down to being very present in those moments of drinking your coffee. And I really like that. I think those are moments we really can just enjoy a little bit of life, that little slice of life. So there are a few other details.

Fabrice Neuman
Hmm.

Yeah, before that, I wanted to add the fact that I think we were very careful and it came naturally to never say that we have the perfect way of making coffee. This is not what we're talking about here.

So basically I think what we giving here is ways to reach your perfect cup of coffee, not ours.

Anne Trager
Absolutely. I think that there's very much related to biohacking in that. Everybody here perhaps knows that I am a biohacker. And for me, biohacking is about, first of all, optimizing your environment, both inside and outside, so that it works at its optimal capacity. And it's mostly about experimentation. And that's what we're doing here. We are doing these experiments.

Fabrice Neuman
Exactly.

Anne Trager
We came up with a different solution for our experiments with coffee in order to enjoy that moment of coffee to its fullest and enjoy the flavors. There are a few other details that I would like to bring in that do seem to me to be important. One is that we always use organic coffee, always, because I'm always trying to avoid having anything is not part of that ingredient in my taste experience. We can say... what we want about the quality of organic certification, depending on where it comes in the world and where you're buying your coffee. That said, an organic coffee will have less crap in it or on it when it was grown than a non-organic coffee. And that's good enough for me. That's the first thing. And the second thing about coffee to really keep in mind is that coffee is very susceptible to mold.

Fabrice Neuman
Hmm.

Anne Trager
So some coffee producers market mold-free coffee. That's wonderful if they can ascertain that it is truly mold-free. Some places you can't ascertain that. It's another reason I like to use whole beans. And I also try to choose high altitude coffees and I try to choose coffee beans that come from a single plantation. because I think that this will reduce the possibility of me getting crappy coffee. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but these are choices that I make.

Fabrice Neuman
And that also leads to how we keep the coffee, how to preserve it, because we buy a few kilos at a time, and we try to keep it the best way we can, which led, for example, at the beginning, we were keeping the coffee beans in the fridge. And at some point, you told me, you know, that's not a good method.

And can you explain why? Because I don't exactly remember, but it was related to mold, if I remember correctly.

Anne Trager
Well, I think, and again, I'd have to go back and do some more research. I remember at the time, first I kept it in the freezer, then I kept it in the fridge. And then I was thinking the humidity quantities. And I decided we would keep it in as airtight as possible container and in a cool, dark place. This is a choice for reasons that I am sure there are some coffee lovers out there who will So again, this is the choice I'm at now. And now that you bring it up, maybe I'll explore it a little bit more and change my mind.

Fabrice Neuman
Well, and if any listeners have some other views or some other methods, we would love to hear them because we're always on the lookout for new things to learn.

Anne Trager
Absolutely. And while we are still on the topic of coffee, tell me how I changed your life with coffee. And this time I will admit it was my fault.

Fabrice Neuman
Well, your fault and thanks to you because it was actually wonderful. So the idea is to add a few ingredients to coffee. And surprisingly, those ingredients are butter. Yes, you put butter in the coffee and some type of coconut oil that you will tell us more about. The thing is, what changed is that the idea is with this butter coffee is to manage your energy in the morning. We already said last time that it's better to wait for 45 minutes to an hour before drinking your coffee in the morning for all those managing your cortisol levels Plus, can also add those ingredients to coffee. They have some effects that you will describe, but it was really something of a discovery for me because I had the same reaction as everyone when we say that we have butter coffee, which means to begin with putting some butter in the coffee, not much, but a bit.

And it was like, why? Like butter, my coffee? And then you think about it and it's like some people put a little milk in it or something. And first of all, after my first reaction, I tried it. I loved it taste-wise. Plus, and after a few days and you'll explain why, I loved the effect it had on me for the whole morning. So yes, butter coffee was a revolution and I still do it and it's been years.

Anne Trager
Absolutely wonderful. I love to hear that. And I am not surprised about what you say about the flavor because anybody who cooks knows that fat is a fabulous vector for flavors. So it just makes the flavor of coffee better. I discovered butter coffee when I got into biohacking and I discovered Dave Asprey who popularized what at the time he was calling bulletproof coffee, which is this mixture of coffee with butter and as you mentioned, coconut oil or medium chain triglycerides, okay, MCT oil. And I'll talk a little bit more about it later. And...

The idea is that this mix can replace your breakfast and it can give you lots of energy and reduces any kind of brain fog you can have and everything. In my first experience, well, I did it. I didn't find it all that exciting. You know, I put a little butter in, I put a little coconut oil in and I tasted it and I thought, what is this? And I love experiments, so did this for about a month and I wasn't feeling any of the effects. And I'm like, what is this thing?

Fabrice Neuman
Hmm.

Anne Trager
So I went back to recipe and realized that I was missing a very important detail. that, and again, the devil is in the details, really. So I was not blending it. And the whole thing that makes this so powerful is to actually blend it. So I use a plunger blender.

You can use any kind of blender and the idea is to blend it all together. And when I started doing that, all of the sudden I had more energy. I was not hungry anymore. It was really fabulous. And my brain just lit up incredible. And that's when I started talking to you about it. And I believe you took a while before you actually decided you would try it.

Fabrice Neuman
Yeah, well, because as I was saying, like everybody, was like, it was a weird idea. Plus, meant changing my habits. And we know how difficult that is to change your habits and then create new ones. Up until I tried. so I was really, first of all, I think for me, the

Was the first deciding factor because it was really good and I liked it a lot. No, that's what I meant. And then I could see the effect it had on me. So yes, absolutely. And so now it became a habit that would be very hard for me to change.

Anne Trager
I believe it also completely changed your body composition over a period of time.

Fabrice Neuman
The thing is can use that butter coffee within a keto diet. The idea, first of all, is to one of the effects is that when you do that.

Another important point is that this is the only thing you have for breakfast. You don't eat anything. The idea is to continue your fast, if you will, up until whenever you can at least lunch break. And having fat in the coffee helps you do that, which is absolutely amazing.

Anne Trager
You're right. And the fat will make it easier to wait and to prolong your fast to do what we call intermittent fasting. And some purists will say, but you have fat, so it's not a fast. Okay, whatever. However you want to do that. It still allows you to not have carbohydrates or protein until later in the day, which is a kind of fast. And the other thing that happens is that by using this healthy fat, and butter is a healthy fat and MCT oil is a healthy fat, and blending it with the coffee, fat absorbs the caffeine, and then your body absorbs the caffeine at a slower rate.

Fabrice Neuman
Yeah.

Anne Trager
So it lasts longer. So you have prolonged energy. And I just find that really interesting. Again, it's a technology. And it makes for a very rich beverage. So you don't even feel like you want to eat anything else. I mean, really, honestly.

Fabrice Neuman
Absolutely.

Anne Trager
You drink it less quickly. So it's really helpful to have your tech, your cup that will keep it warm because when it's cold, it's not so good. Okay. So, and the other thing that happens is that by blending it, you have the fat and the caffeine altogether. And again, it slows down the, the caffeine release, which means that if you tend to get a jolt from the caffeine because you're drinking caffeinated coffee, well, you don't get that jolt anymore, which is cool.

Fabrice Neuman
Yes,

Mm-hmm.

Anne Trager
And the butter is also good for your gut and for your gut bacteria. So there are many, many benefits to doing this. The idea, as you said, is to not have any sugar or carbs. So don't sweeten your coffee and don't eat a croissant with that because then you're competing for different kinds of energy sources.

Fabrice Neuman
Yeah.

Anne Trager
It's much easier for your body to use anything that is sugar or carbohydrate related than it is for it to use fat for fuel. Because when it uses the fat, the healthy fat, it's going to go through the liver, which is then going to transform that into ketone bodies that it will then use for fuel. And we're very capable of doing this. And the thing is, is if you add the sugar or carbs to that, well...

It's going to use the sugar of carbs because it doesn't require it, because it's a lot faster. And all of that fat is going to go someplace. Usually for me, it's on my hips. Okay. Not where I want it to be. Okay. Not feeding my brain.

Fabrice Neuman
Well, and that's a very important point about sugar. All of the things you said are very important to make your body use a certain type of energy items, if you will. But the thing is, in order to make it more palatable, easier to drink. It's true that I also like the, I guess I like the taste because it's been years and years since I put, you know, any kind of sweetener in my coffee. And I can't bear putting any amount of sweetener or sugar in my coffee. So if you are drinking in the morning with sugar or anything,

The first step, I would say, would be to try to drink coffee without sugar. And I know some people can do it, and it can be bitter, which leads, actually, to try and make your coffee differently. Because sometimes the bitterness comes way you're making your coffee. So changing that can make a coffee more easy to drink because it's not as bitter. So, you know, think about your beans and think about your the grinder and think about all the things we've talked about beforehand. And then try to drink it without sugar. It can take a few days, maybe a couple of weeks. I've talked to so many people about that. After this period of time, putting sugar in your coffee is absolutely unbearable. I'm telling you so.

Anne Trager
Mmm.

Thanks.

Taking away the sugar from the coffee opens up this whole swath of flavors that are related to the more bitter flavors, that spectrum of flavors, which are just masked by sugar. And it does take a period of adaptation, but then you can actually start to taste those flavors, which are really very interesting and it creates a different architecture of flavor in your mouth.

Fabrice Neuman
Mm-hmm.

Anne Trager
So yeah, absolutely. If you're not taking your coffee straight, drink it straight and see what happens.

Fabrice Neuman
And then try the butter coffee and stuff like that. So we'll put in the show notes the link to your blog. If I remember correctly, it's the first article you wrote for your blog many years ago. So we'll put the links to the three articles, all about the butter coffee, how to make it, the recipe.

Anne Trager
Yeah, absolutely. And there were three articles that detail.

Fabrice Neuman
and all the effects that you described. And then you go into more details about that. So we'll put that in the show notes.

Anne Trager
Absolutely. I recommend that you go in and read those articles. It will explain the MCT oil choice that we use and why we use it. So we won't go into it here. I invite you to go and read that and explore that and give it a try and let us know what your experience is with your coffee.

So, and I believe we have now said enough about coffee. Is there, what else is new for you, Fabrice? I believe you spent a lot of time recently monitoring the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas a few weeks ago. Can you give us something on tech, something on living well, maybe something on coffee, if there was anything on coffee, probably.

Fabrice Neuman
Yes.

Eh.

Yeah, I was going to say, so before pivoting from coffee, one last thing about coffee. OK, it's more like for fun. One of the things that made the rounds at CES this year was this kind of blower robot. So just imagine a tiny thing that you can put on top of your mug. It looks like a cat because you know Internet, technology, cats that go together. But it's just a tiny thing with a little fan in it. So it will blow on your coffee mug because when you make your coffee with higher temperature water, then it's too hot to drink. And so it will blow on it instead of you doing it. This is stupid. It's made by a company called Yuccai Engineering.

I guess it encapsulates the fun that you can have with technology and things you can see during CES. It's still think that a mug, the one I have, is better because if you blow too much on your coffee, then it becomes too cold and then it's not as good as it's supposed to be. anyway, we'll put the link in the show

Anne Trager
haha

Okay.

Fabrice Neuman
But yeah, you mentioned that we like to also talk in our podcast about technology and living well technology and tech that can be good for us, for the world or for whatever. so there are a few things, that I saw during CES that I found very interesting.

Audio glasses. I think this is technology used right. So imagine a pair of that looks like a pair of glasses. But they are actually hearing aids. And the idea is to have some kind of hearing aid that does not stigmatize because some, we all know people who waited a bit too long to get hearing aids because they would say, so if I have that in my ears, that will look old. And so I don't want to have that. So it's just a pair of aids nobody sees that it's anything else than a pair of glasses. But it has, obviously, microphones and tiny speakers that direct sound directly into your ear canals. And it has two things, because in addition to know, microphones and speakers. It also has a camera in it. And the idea is to offer you two types of hearing aids. One is like the normal one. Well, it will amplify sounds so you can hear better. It also uses AI to watch sounds, watch the audio so you can hear more distinctly what you want to hear and not the hum of, you know, whatever.

Anne Trager
Hmm.

Fabrice Neuman
It will help you in that. But the camera also, you can use a more targeted way of using it. If, imagine you're talking to a room full of people and there's a whole brouhaha and it makes it difficult for some people to hear and to have a conversation. Using the camera, you can direct the hearing aid part directly on the person you're speaking to and almost getting rid of any other sound.

And thanks to AI and the progress in audio, microphones, stuff like that, that blew me away. It's mean, that's exactly what tech is for, should be for, helping people and using the tech we have available to help people have a better life. so these are made by Nuance Audio. It's a brand name from a Essilor Luxottica. So this is one of those three very big companies in the world making lenses for glasses and frames and have lots of different brand names and stuff like that. So that was amazing.

Anne Trager
So, well, thanks for sharing. Like coffee, hearing contributes to longevity. So there is a connection there. And we can talk more about it in another episode, actually what you need to keep up your hearing is very good for brain health and for continued brain health. I just thought I'd throw that in.

Fabrice Neuman
Absolutely. And to end up with a smile, there's another tech we saw there. It's a French company. It's called Cryptors in the City. So it's not a French name, but you know what tech is all about. Cryptors in the City will put the name in the show notes as well. And it's a way for cities to add places where you can scan a code or an image and have information, historical information on the place you're at in augmented reality through your It's amazing. We had a taste of that. We visited a place big like church that had this kind of technology where you could have characters explaining what happened a thousand years ago in augmented reality and it was really great. So you can go on the website, you'll see what it is, cryptorsinthecity.com. I think it's great to have that possibility to enhance your visit of historical places.

Anne Trager
Well, thank you, Fabrice, for sharing those fun finds. And I believe we've come to the end of our time for today.

Fabrice Neuman
Exactly. That's it for episode 10 of our foray into coffee. I think two episodes will be enough for now, but who knows?

Anne Trager
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe there are other things we can talk about too, and we'll see.

Fabrice Neuman
Yeah.

Yeah, we'll see you until then. Thank you all for joining us. Visit humanpulsepodcast.com for links in past episodes and leave a review to support the show.

Anne Trager
Thank you for subscribing and sharing and being part of our community. Please do share this episode with one person who loves their coffee. And we will see you in two weeks.

Fabrice Neuman
Bye everyone.